Berk's Grapevine

New Fishlegs Poster! (No watermark)

Here's another How to Train Your Dragon 2 character poster, this time featuring Fishlegs and Meatlug! It was released today on J-14 with this description: was released today on J-14's website! The article comes with this description of the movie:

Fishlegs is a lovable dragon nerd who seems to get bigger with age. As a clever and determined statistical guru, he keeps detailed records of each dragons' traits and characteristics. He prefers to play things on the safe side and hates breaking rules. If you loved Fishlegs in the first movie, you're bound to grow even more attached in the sequel. 

How to Train Your Dragon 2 follows Hiccup and Toothless, who are working together to save the future of men and dragons from the evil Drago. Astrid will join forces with her boyfriend Hiccup and her magnesium dragon Stormfly to help take down Drago.

What do you think of Fishlegs' new look?


  1. Holy jesus, that facial hair!

  2. WHOAAAH? Meatlug ears on his helmet!!!!! And would you look at THAT BEARD!!... Puberty shuberty pfft...

  3. Fish has a beard! This is JUST GREAT. I JUST fishinshed the Astrid one! |:(


  4. Oh, Fishlegs...... :3 *dies*
    That's it. I can't take anymore Dragons stuff with six months still left to go!


  6. I doubt you could handle no more dragon stuff for 6 months. (Because I definitely couldn't...)

  7. I can't wait for the new movie

  8. hmmmmm, i dont like his look, and he well looks weird if he has beard now then he`ll have an even bigger beard in the 3rd movie !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  9. It's not natural that all dragons grew up, when in first movie all of them, even wild packs, were young... but, well, they look much more nuanced than in first movie and series :)

  10. Wow this is incredible!!! I can almost feel a Croods-influence on him, and it's really awesome. He's definitely grown!

  11. He's turning into Po from Kung Fu Panda.

  12. awesome!!
    he still is timid but look at the facial hair!

  13. To be honest, I'm actually not the biggest fan of Fishlegs new design. Sure all of them have grown up now into their early starts of the adult years but I'm not really a big fan of this.
    The beard . . . well lets not get me started on that. The helmets cute but I would have guessed that he would have had the Gronckle Iron sword unless DreamWorks has decided to not base it off of the TV series.
    In other words I'm looking forward to getting to see the others designs before I make up my mind on whether I'll be looking forward tot he movie.

  14. I agree. Bring the noodles!

  15. wow at first to me it looked like a young Gobber but then I realized that Gobber wouldn't look so scared!! I also say BRING THE DUMPLINGS!!!

  16. Just one word: puberty!
    Yeah, another poster! :D I will admit that Fishlegs is not really my favorite character, but I still like him! ;)
    These details and the beard O_O OMG

  17. Deep down I know that's Fishlegs. DEEP DEEP down I know it, but are these guys THAT grown up? They're getting beards? *sob*. I can't believe it!

  18. Haha! Fishlegs is rocking the scruff! How funny! He's also comically holding a knife of all weapons. He's the only teen with the physique that could handle the massive hammers or blades the adults use, but instead he's using a knife. Meatlug (along with all the other dragons) looks spectacularly detailed! Wow, makes RoB Meatlug look very plastic... Ha, very cool! Love this style of releasing posters of everyone. Wonder what Snotlout and Hookfang will look like. Honestly (other than Hiccup and Toothless because I just can't say that their poster isn't the best), I'm betting Astrid will be may favorite. Her's was just so perfect and Stormfly looked great. Still... wow! Exciting times!

  19. ARGHHHHHHHH... Stop torturing me Dreamworks, I know it's all part of your plan to tease me with dragons!!!!

  20. You can thank DreamWorks fpr their new technologiy "Primo" for that. It increases extremly the realism of living objects. Maybe thats why some of the dragons looks elder. But you're right, Toothless looks much elder than in the first movie.

  21. hiccupandtoothlesshybridJanuary 23, 2014 at 4:47 PM

    T.T why must the faces I've grown used to change?

  22. I hope they all eventually end up with true Berk-Style viking beards! ...well, not Astrid and Ruffnut...:D

  23. I'm sorry, I don't much like it either, but I have this big stupid grin on my face because just what. What.

  24. When I saw this, first thing I yelled was "HE HAS A BEARD!". My family looked at me like I was crazy XD

  25. The Hiccup and Toothless one looked fine to me. It might look a little different though because maybe they originally planed to only have them. Then Astrid cam along, now Fishlegs, They could have stopped at Astrid but now they have to do everyone now that they added Fish. And I think maybe Snotlout could handle a hammer. And yes, they did do a bad animating job on RoB and DoB. They make it look like Hiccup wears a leather vest, when it should look like a yak skin vest. And just not the best quality in comparison to the movie. (That is what happens when the movie comes before the show.)

  26. #UnleashTheDumplings

  27. I'm digging the new dragon wings on his helmet

  28. If you look a little closer, it looks like Fishlegs has a hunch back with how fluffy his shirt is XD

  29. I have a stupid grin on my face because of this.... I was like on Berk's grapevine all morning and at noon I saw this and I'm just like all excited then I see his face and I'm just like.. *JUMPING AROUND THE ROOM LAUGHING*... -_- ... He looks weird with facial hair ...

  30. He has a mustache!!!

  31. I love shrimp dumplings!!

  32. aww fishlegs is still the same :D

  33. OMG, I love him!

  34. Astrid Hoffersons SisterJanuary 23, 2014 at 8:21 PM

    Yeah I like the look he looks much better! I like the beard. Also, BRING FORTH THE WONTONS!!!!!

  35. Astrid Hoffersons SisterJanuary 23, 2014 at 8:34 PM

    Yeah, RoB and DoB Hiccup dosen't even look like his real self from the movie. Although I know that the budget for animating a T.V. show is MUCH lower than a full scale movie they should have at least made Hiccups ebrows not look painted on.... I agree with the vest though. I think the thing that is the most different is the nose, they did it all wrong in the T.V. series.

  36. Oh yeah, working the tiny beard Fishlegs! :D

  37. There is a new episode called Eel Effect on 26 February 2014

  38. He's looking good with a beard... but Hiccup' still HOT

  39. I can't wait to see how Snot lout and the twins look like up close!

  40. I agree that the animation is a bit of an annoyance, but if anything that makes you pay closer attention to the plot of each episode.

  41. It's a little heartbreaking to see the teens looking so grown up. But at the same time I love it. Kinda like when I first found how HTTYD 2 was going to be set 5 years later. I was so upset I honestly thought "Nope. Bad decision. Very bad decision." but now I'm all like "YES! GOOD DECISION! VERY FRICKIN' GOOD DECISION!"

  42. I know right!?

  43. Fishlegs, to be honest, looks a little old. (*hint: the beard*) I like Astrid's and Hiccup's look better.

  44. VelocityTheSpeedStingerJanuary 23, 2014 at 10:54 PM

    Remember though, Meatlug only produced so much Gronckle Iron, and Fishlegs didn't get a dagger made of the stuff either.

  45. Whoo! Fishlegs and Meatlug! :D

    He seems to be the youngest of the group, but here, in this aged appearance, he looks like he's the oldest with that beard and all... And gosh, he got fatter! XD

    Troll face Meatlug. She looks so realistic! And her coloration looks like the one from the series, since she is darker brown in the first movie and the shorts. She looks like she has this mischievous streak on her face, for me :3

  46. Free dumpling for everyone! XD

  47. Me too! I wanna see the twins!

  48. Ruff and Snotlout don't seem to change much... They seem to keep their teen hairstyles :3

  49. But he did receive a Gronckle Iron sword from Gobber...

  50. Actually, it is more distracting to be all like 'ARGH! THEY DID IT AGAIN!' over stuff like his face and vest. It bothered me while Iwas watching almost every episode for the vest. It totally ruined the little sad moment when Hiccup is sitting at his dad feet in Frozen in the cove, drawing in the dirt.

  51. He does look younger in comparison. I know at a younger age the nose isn't as fully grown, so maybe.. just picture it as a young looking Hiccup?

    Well... -raises glass- here's to pretending the TV show Hiccup is a younger version of Hiccup!

  52. He might have it, but if they would have shown him wielding a full fledged sword it would have chopped off half of the picture, and they probably want to show off as much of him as possible. Plus, they are most likely aiming for "weak and scared" view, so they give him a small weapon to further our opinion of.. "Haha how are you gonna defend yourself with THAT Fishlegs!" or "OMG Fishlegs looks so scared.. and look at that tiny sword!" ETC ETC

  53. Wow! I didn't think we'd get another poster that quick!

  54. To be honest I think that'd come in the third movie. It's almost guaranteed for them, seeing as how all of the adult male characters we have seen thus far seem to have beards.

    But as for this movie having a full fledged beard.. Doubtful, as this is probably set when they are becoming men and woman. So they probably don't want to give off the impression that they already adults.. So what do they do.. a stubble.. A perfectly grown up yet still viking youth-like addition.

  55. VelocityTheSpeedStingerJanuary 24, 2014 at 12:07 AM

    I agree totally. Fishlegs doesn't need a weapon imo. He has brute strength and Berserker rage to do the job for him ;)

  56. But it keeps coming and coming and reminding me how LOOOOOOOONG the next six months is going to be.....

  57. Can't wait to see the other characters. I hope Ruff and Tuff get individual posters that when put together form a bigger poster.

  58. I read your comment about how Fishlegs are gonna defend himself with that in Gobber's accent... XD

    But I must admit, as much as I wanna see the timid Fishlegs kick butt (and using his Gronckle Iron sword) I like him better this way, the husky, mellow, nerdy soft hearted, timid viking :3

    I wonder if she's really gonna hitting on Ruffnut as everyone suspects...

  59. Aww... they are grew up very fast! Fishlegs now like a... REAL viking! Cool!
    I look forward to the twins!

  60. Hahaha... More like a grumpy aunt after being woken up. She looks a lot older that way. I wonder if her personality really changes...

    I have no idea why but I find her so... pretty *O*

    In the series, she seems to lose that appeal... somewhat.

  61. I heard somewhere that Tuffnut has dreadlocks...
    And Fishlegs!!!! You're bound to start having nervous breakdowns where you start acting like Po :)

  62. Uh... am I the only one who likes Toothless' series design more than his movie design?

    Actually, it's more to his eyes, his eyes in the movie are somewhat... too big, while in the series they are much smaller and aligned perfectly in the face, so... yeah.

    I didn't really notice Hiccup's character differences in the series with the movie... until now... What I spot at first was Hiccup's hair in the series was longer and... the eyes... somewhat different.

  63. It's coming closer, I can feel it! But...

  64. Actually, if you noticed, I think there were some of the older dragons than the ones owned by the characters. I remember there were some Nightmares with extra antlers on their horns, some Zipplebacks with longer chin spikes...

    Nadders and Gronckles don't seem to have any specific features when they grow up...

  65. I agree. The series is more childish and is made worse than the movie but also Hiccup doesn't seem Hiccup.

    That makes the series like me AND not like me at once.

  66. Fishlegs' looks really fits in for the growing Berk Viking!
    I like the details on his lil' knife too.

    I want to see close details on Stoick, Valka or maybe Drago too (If they make it..)

  67. wow look how detailed the fur cloak is and the scales on meatlug are

  68. When the series first began, one of the show's creators brought up this point. He basically said that, given the show's budget and schedule, the fur vests took up way too much animation and processing time. So anything like the vests that are on-screen a lot and take an insane amount of time to process had to be altered. So the vests went from fur to leather and Stoick's beard and Gobber's mustache had to be simplified.

    None of this bugs me much. My big gripe about the budget casualties involves the scarcity of villagers.

  69. Why do the twins and snotlout always have paint on their face? (eg.HTTYD 2 trailer, poster#1 by dragon trainer)

  70. Can't wait for Ruff and Tuff's poster! *3*

  71. Since when does 'Legs have green eyes?

  72. There's always the possibility that this film will end in a cliffhanger. Parts 2 and 3 could be one big epic story told in two parts.

  73. SyrazaTheNightFuryTrainerJanuary 24, 2014 at 2:40 PM

    Hmmm... I'll have to use with Fishlegs' beard... But the poster is awesome!

  74. SyrazaTheNightFuryTrainerJanuary 24, 2014 at 3:36 PM

    Since.. he was born? :D

  75. You're right. In my opinion the first twenty minutes will be to explain how Hiccup flees Berk. Another twenty to introduce Valka. And the rest of time to show the evil characters and a epic war between vikins/dragons and Drago's armada/evil-dragons.
    However ... No time to mix well......
    Could this be the first 3D animated movie that lasts 2 hours?

  76. I can't stop laughing by looking at him. His expression is like: "Well, I am NOT supposed to be here!"

  77. Two hours would make it, as far as I know, the longest western animated movie ever (heck, as far as I know, it would make it the longest animated movie from anywhere ever, but I admit I know little about anime) by a considerable margin. To the best of my knowledge, only Pixar have made animated movies that go for much longer than 100 minutes, and I'm really not sure that Dreamworks gets that same level of creative freedom.

    So yes, it's technically possible, but we'd be fools to get our hopes up in this regard.

  78. Since whatever happens in httyd 2 is supposed to be wrapped up in httyd 3, I have this distinct feeling DreamWorks will give us a cliffhanger. But in a way, cliffhangers kind of make movies better so Im embracing it :D

  79. That's so unlikely that it may as well be impossible. I'm talking "less likely than Valka being the villain" levels of improbability. Why? Because it's still a children's film. Yeah, we can talk all we want about how much darker this film is going to be, but it still has to be marketable to children if Dreamworks want to make a lot of money (as they undoubtedly do). Children would not respond well to a cliffhanger that they need to wait two years to have resolved.

  80. Ending a film that has to appeal to children on a cliffhanger would be one of the worst business decisions imaginable. It's worse even than giving a sad ending (which I cannot recall any children's film in my lifetime doing), because there's not even any closure.

    Sure, it could work from an artistic perspective (well, in the long term; in the short term, it would probably leave the second film feeling quite weak), but Dreamworks is, first and foremost, a business. They're not going to commit box-office suicide for art.

  81. Don't go reminding me now...

  82. I don't like new Toothless, The eyes are off and they are most often grey or blueish grey and they don't to the prosthetic right. Hiccups hair and eyes are off too, but I don't notice that too often, It is mainly the vest that bothers me.

  83. I know what you mean about the villagers, it is always the same ones. The model they used for young Astrid in Fright of Passage was a reused child from the village, because I saw her again in a later episode. And plus, it looked nothing like Astrid!

  84. You know, a lot of folks would have said ending a "children's film" with an amputation was box-office suicide. Thankfully, they risked it and ended up with one of the greatest fantasy films of all time.

    And consider The Empire Strikes Back.and PotC: Dead Man's Chest.

    Audiences embrace cliffhangers when they work. Teens and adults dig it and kids these days are used to cliffhangers -- they understand that there's more coming (if they're too young to comprehend that, they're too young to see the film in the first place). From what's been hinted at, I wouldn't be suprised if HTTYD2's ending is sad *and* a cliffhanger, much like The Empire Strikes Back. Personally, I'd enjoy a happy ending and a hint at a looming threat to be addressed in part 3, but I really think the writers and director are taking full advantage of the "guaranteed trilogy" situation, and I can't wait to see where they take this.

    I'm frankly worried my favorite character's gonna die (he ain't one of the teens), but if that happens...well...I'm still expecting an awesome film.

  85. I mentioned this in another reply, too, but I disagree. This franchise has already taken animated features into realms unthinkable before its release (what...the young hero has his leg amputated at the end???) and I think everyone involved knows they've got something special here that doesn't play by the rules of "normal" family entertainment.

    The Star Wars films are films for children (and fans of all ages), and Empire Strikes Back remains the most universally praised. When I see the trailer for HTTYD2, it doesn't feel like an animated film trailer; It's a trailer for an epic fantasy adventure and the fact that it's animated is secondary. That's one of the things I love about this franchise: It's blurring the line between traditional childrens' entertainment and more "serious" fantasy epics.

    I could be dead wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see HTTYD2 end with a cliffhanger...a really, really *good* cliffhanger.

  86. The Incredibles was just 5 minutes shy of 2 hours (and Bakshi's animated Lord of the RIngs was about 2 hours and fifteen minutes long but that's not a very happy example).

    And, heck, Avatar's nearly 3 hours long and -- no matter what Cameron says -- it qualifies as an animated film.

    HTTYD's world is unlike anything in the history of film, animated or otherwise. If any franchise has the chance to push boundaries and show what previously unheard of things can be done in a mainstream animated film, it's this one.

    But, as you say, don't get hopes up (too much), for 2 hours. One way or the other, I'm very impressed by HTTYD's efficient use of storytelling time, and I hope to see the same masterful every-frame-counts sharpness in part 2.

  87. I know! Hiccup doesn't act like the dorky clumsy awesome self he is. He acts like he has been not... 'a hiccup,' for most of his life. He has only been... Hiccup the hero rather then the useless for a couple of months. I miss his clumsy and dorky self! :(

  88. Nope. Two hours is rare in animation but has absolutely been done before, and by westerners too. Fantasia was over two hours, Cars and The Incredibles were a few minutes under.,&sort=runtime,desc&title_type=feature

  89. From the looks of the trailer it doesn't really seem like their target audience is young kids. Even if it was, the audience of children they had for the first movie were most likely around the ages of 6, 7, and up, which means 4 years later all of those kids are older now. Plus DreamWorks isn't the sappy, happily ever after type like disney, and HTTYD is their next big thing. They're gonna do whatever they need to do for everyone to like it, not just young kids.

  90. It's not just Snotlout and the twins, at some book covers, Astrid and Hiccup also have paints on their faces. They are doing it for dragon races.

  91. Probably because she sounds like she's smokes 5 packs a day.

  92. While it is true that the target audience for the sequel appears to be a bit older than for your average animated movie, it's still firmly in the kids area. Think "The Hobbit" the novel, rather than the movies based on it. Peter Jackson can get away with ending The Desolation of Smaug on a cliffhanger largely because it was most definitely a film aimed at the mid-teens and upwards. Also, you know, if anyone's that desperate to find out how it ends, they can pick up the novel and read it.

    This doesn't apply to HTTYD 2. Not only is it still firmly aimed at kids (for example, the probability of there being more than the slightest trace of blood is even less than the probability of Valka actually being the villain), but the kids would have to wait two years to resolve the cliffhanger. That's going to lead to a lot of upset kids and a lot of pissed off parents. That's the last thing a business-minded animation studio wants. Now, while an argument can be made that Dreamworks is not opposed to bittersweet endings (the original HTTYD being by far the best, though quite possibly the only, example), that's hugely different from a cliffhanger leaving the audience, a huge percentage of which will be children, without any sense of closure. Remember, Dreamworks is first and foremost out to make money, and you don't make money by pissing off your audience.

    Note that none of this prevents them having a sequel hook of some sort on the ending, but that's a very different thing. Nick Fury asking someone to join the Avengers is not a cliffhanger; Smaug flying off to destroy Laketown is. The former is the sort of thing we might get; the latter is what we will not get.

    Check on my tumblr to see it because I can't seem to paste anything or links now

  94. Meatlug in this poster has sooo much detail! I love it when animators take time with detail, i mean, think how long it must have taken!

  95. Lol, that's so true! I find her voice very raspy at alot of times...

  96. 1. Cars and The Incredibles were both made by Pixar. Disney's philosophy to Pixar can be summarised as: "let them do whatever the heck they want: we declared them to be legally a mint years ago." I really doubt that the executives at Dreamworks have that level of trust in DeBlois and co., and not without good reason. DeBlois is untested on his own, so I'd wager he has to justify every single decision he makes that steps outside the norm for animated movie to the money lenders. And frankly, I really doubt that anyone could justify the financial expenditure for an extra thirty minutes of animation. Let's face it, this movie is almost certainly going to make a killing at the box office even if it's terrible. I doubt the expenditure on an extra thirty minutes of animation would pay off, so it's highly unlikely the money lenders would approve it.

    2. Fantasia was a flop at the box office on its initial release, so much so that it nearly destroyed Disney. While your facts are accurate, that's a terrible example to give when trying to explain why the Dreamworks executives would provide the money for an extra thirty minutes of animation.

  97. 1. Okay, let's get one thing clear here: HTTYD had an undeniably
    bittersweet ending. This is nothing new for animation, not by a long
    shot. All Dogs Go to Heaven did it, Toy Story 2 did it, amongst others.
    Bittersweet endings work because they provide a rare combination of
    believability and closure. It is that closure that makes it a very
    different matter from a cliffhanger.

    Now, while there are certainly plenty of children who can handle
    cliffhangers, I'd wager there are also plenty who can't. Note that this
    is nothing to do with being unable to understand that there will be a
    conclusion, just that they want it to be now, not later, and certainly
    not in two years time. Kids are, in general, impatient little blighters
    (and in all fairness, so was I when I was a kid), for various reasons.
    They're not, in general, going to respond well to a cliffhanger with a
    two-year wait, especially when they're not used to them in movies, which
    tend to be, and indeed should be, largely self-contained stories.

    2. The Empire Strikes Back and Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men's
    Chest are not children's films, and are thus irrelevant to this
    discussion. Sure, some children watched them, but they were, certainly
    for the latter (I wasn't born until the

    late 80s, and thus can't really say much with certainty about the actual
    audience for The Empire Strikes Back), a fringe audience, rather like
    we are for HTTYD. Sure, any corporation in their right mind would like
    to please the fringe audience as well, but many won't worry too much
    about pissing them off if they can see some sort of benefit in it.
    Upsetting the main audience, though? Not a good idea.

    For what it's worth, I would also like to point out that Dead Man's
    Chest had it's sequel a year later, which is a huge difference from two
    years later.

    3. I for one do not worry about my favourite characters dying, at least
    when I'm not in the middle of the viewing experience itself. Outside
    of that, I worry about my favourite characters becoming irrelevant,
    which is a far worse thing. Good death scenes (which don't appear to be
    particularly difficult to accomplish) are an absolute gift, and for any
    show where my favourite character dies, you can be sure that that
    episode will be my favourite.

    With all that said, if your favourite character is, by some chance,
    Stoic, then yes, he's pretty much a dead man walking, if not in this
    movie, then in the next one.

  98. Pixar is a category unto themselves, and even at that time, Disney knew that a Pixar film was a foolproof way to make a load of money. I doubt that there's anyone else in the animation industry who get to make their corporate overlords their bitches, rather than the other way around. Dean DeBlois is still an untested director on his own, and thus would have to justify those extra thirty minutes, and the money that would be required for them. That's a near-impossible task from a financial perspective, which is the only perspective the relevant people care about.

    As for Fantasia, that was a box office flop, so probably not the best example to use when trying to convince me that a business would make a two-hour animated movie when a ninety-minute one would probably make just as much gross, let alone profit.

  99. 1. Studios like Pixar, and directors like James Cameron, are the envy of pretty much every creative person in the movie, for one simple reason: they've become so successful that they get to call the shots. DeBlois and his team aren't at that point yet. If HTTYD 2 is a big enough hit, then maybe they will be, but that's a hypothetical. For now, he has to dance for his corporate overlords like everyone else. For now, that means he would have to somehow convince them that it's worth spending their money on an extra thirty minutes of animation, for no major return in box office gross, let alone profit. Yeah, I don't think he pulled that off.

    Still, assuming that IMDB can be trusted, he did manage to haggle to an extra fifteen minutes. Not bad, not bad at all. Will it be enough? Well, I doubt it. He'll still probably have to kill some darlings in order to get all the important stuff done properly. We'd be fools to base our hopes on that.

    2. "HTTYD's world is unlike anything in the history of film, animated or otherwise."

    No it isn't.

    How to Train Your Dragon is a brilliantly made film set in an entertaining world, but few if any of the elements in it are original. The story's one we've all seen a thousand times before, the characters all fall into familiar archetypes, and the world is a combination of of standard fantasy tropes, combined a with a bit of Pokemon for good measure (and yes, I'm sure Pokemon wasn't original, either).

    And there's nothing wrong with any of that. I'll take a well-executed, unoriginal story over a complete load of nonsense that's only original because no one else was dumb enough to put that idea on the screen before, any day. And of course, HTTYD is not just a well-executed example, it's a brilliantly-executed example. But let's not go nuts and claim that it's "unlike anything in the history of film", because that simply isn't true.

  100. Fantasia was a flop for story telling reasons, not run-time. I don't think HTTYD 2 will exactly hit 2 hours, quite either. But I do think it may just shy of it by 6-10 minutes. :) What you are saying throughout makes sense though and I don't object strongly to most of it.

    But earlier you claimed the Empire Strikes Back was irrelevant to the conversation. Dean Deblois said HTTYD 2 would resemble Empire Strikes Back is a few terms. I think this is very relevant, indeed.

    Now, to sum up, HTTYD 2 probably won't end with a hanging ending, but perhaps a more bittersweet one as the first did. It worked out well, afterall!But, the chance it may be a cliffhanger is still an accountable one. (Doesn't quite mean the most probable, however.)

  101. 1. And as I have mentioned before, there's a huge difference between a bittersweet ending (which is hardly something unique to HTTYD amongst animated films) and, well, not giving an ending at all. Audiences like to have closure. Adult audiences are mature enough to wait on it if there's legitimately no way to tell the full story within a standard movie's running time, but kids are mostly impatient little blighters. Even a week's wait for the second part of an episode annoys a lot of them, and a season-ending cliffhanger becomes almost unbearable. A two-year wait just to see how the story ends? You'd be hard-pressed to find a child with that much patience.

    As for The Empire Strikes Back, I disagree twofold. Firstly, it's not a children's film; it's a mass-market blockbuster. There's a difference. With the latter, if you piss off one demographic, then that's unfortunate, but the film and its sequel can still make more than enough money to satisfy most executives. With a children's film, if you lose the children, then you lose the bulk of the audience, either directly or indirectly (the latter being for the lost revenue from parents).

    Second, The Empire Strikes Back did not end on a cliffhanger. There were plenty of sequel hooks and unresolved issues, but the characters were in no immediate peril. The Desolation of Smaug ends on a cliffhanger, and quite a few people I've talked to in various forms are rather annoyed by it. I would like to remind you that that actual cliffhanger could be easily resolved for the individual with five minutes of reading, and they all know this. I would also like to point out that these people are all relatively patient adults.

    Now, with all that in mind, are you really so sure that children could handle an actual cliffhanger with a two-year wait for a resolution?

    2. The reason that the trailer for HTTYD 2 doesn't feel like a trailer for an animated film is because it's actually a good trailer. You can count the number of those for animated films on one hand.

    But really, let's take a look at what's in there, shall we? You've got some nice fluffy character bits, you've got some conflict, an evil villain, and some action scenes. Toy Story had all of those, and it's not like animation has stopped doing bits like that in the meantime.

    Yes, HTTYD 2 looks to have a bit more violence and action than most animated films, but in principle, it's not looking to be have any more action or violence than the average multi-part episode of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2003 or 2012 versions). There's just more combatants on each side. Now, don't get me wrong, I love all the TMNT cartoons, but they're undeniably kids' shows, and bound by the limitations of the medium. Likewise, I love HTTYD, and hope to enjoy the sequel, but from all that we've seen, it looks to be safely at the standard kid-friendly fantasy violence level. That's because it is still a kids' movie, and thus will probably be bound by the other limitations of children's animated movies, the most relevant one here being that there's no way they're going to end a children's film with a cliffhanger.

    Now, as I believe I've said before, I have no doubt that there will be some sequel hooks in the second film, and possibly some unresolved issues of note, but that's a world removed from a cliffhanger.

  102. Believe me, I'm well aware of the storytelling problems in Fantasia. It's actually why I completely forgot about it in the context of this discussion: I only ever watch it as a series of animated shorts, often only one or two at a time.

    As for The Empire Strikes Back, I'm pretty sure we're all familiar with the similarities to that film ("No, Hiccup, I am your mother!"), but it doesn't follow from that that there is even the remotest possibility of HTTYD 2 will end on a cliffhanger. I'm pretty we won't see someone get a limb hacked off on-screen, for instance.

    Of course, it's all a rather moot point, seeing as how The Empire Strikes Back didn't end on a cliffhanger. No immediate danger, and all that. The Desolation of Smaug ended on a cliffhanger. Seasons 1 and 2 of Beast Wars both ended on cliffhangers. Season 1 of TMNT 2k3 ended on a cliffhanger. I could go on with examples of actual cliffhangers, rather than just "We didn't resolve everything because we want a sequel."

  103. Ok cool thanks for this long rant but your comment was that there had never been any 2 hour films made by westerners or anyone else before and I was correcting you. I mean your reasonings for why said films don't count in your mind aren't really relevant? because in the end the point was that if HTTYD was two hours it would not be the first animated movie to be so.

  104. My apologies. I did kind of lose track of my original point in there, and thus did not explain myself very well. So, just to restate briefly.

    Animated movies, at least in the western tradition (again, I have little familiarity with anime) tend to be around ninety minutes. While there have been exceptions, these have mostly been flops (which would simply reinforce executive logic that ninety minutes is the right approximate length for an animated film to maximise profit), or made by Pixar (who are basically a law unto themselves). Therefore, it is unreasonable to assume that HTTYD will be two hours long, for much the same reason we shouldn't expect every movie adaptation of a children's novel to be about nine hours long: some people, studios, etc. are just exceptions, but most obviously aren't.

    If HTTYD 2 follows this trend, then the writers would need a small-scale miracle to squeeze in all the necessary story without creating an incredibly rushed mess.

    Now, for what it's worth, IMDB does state the running time as 105 minutes. That is certainly possible, and sufficiently probable to be worth considering. It would be unusually long for an animated film, but not crazily so. In addition, a 105 minute running time would obviously give them an extra fifteen minutes to fit things in. It would still be a struggle to pull it off, but one that wasn't as difficult.

    With any luck, we are all clear on where I stand now. Again, my apologies for not explaining myself clearly.

  105. I think that every Thursday we will have a new poster.

  106. I do think you're a bit out of touch with what kids are watching these days. All my family's and friends' and co-workers' kids over the age of 5 have seen all the Star Wars, Pirates, Lord of the Rings and Marvel films. I'm not saying I agree that's a good idea, but that's the evolving audience.

    And Empire is indeed a children's film that anyone can enjoy. Lucas has said it since the first film. He made Star Wars for kids. If you think Empire is not a children's film but httyd is, I totally disagree with your classification borders.

    One of the reasons Rise of the Guardians didn't catch on was because it aimed too young. I actually think it's a bigger financial risk these days to make an animated film that's *too* kid friendly.

    I totally agree with you about good death scenes. I am prepared for my favorite chief to head to Valhalla...I'm just not gonna like it. :) Btw, I'm also prepared for that moment to be a cliffhanger -- Oh, forget it! :D I We'll all see what happens in June. I do like your reasoning, but I just disagree with some of your classifications. I think Dreamworks might take some more cool risks with this franchise. I could be dead wrong. We'll see.

  107. The world of HTTYD is unique in its tone and combination of elements, much like the Potter world. It's an animated fantasy film that never relies on supernatural elements to move the plot. The absence of magic on Berk is a refreshing change of pace for an animated film in a fantasy setting. The dragons are treated like any other animal species. I love that about this franchise.

    That makes Berk special and unique for me. It's like Asterix with real dangers and no pop culture references. Love this franchise so much I do tend to go overboard with praise, but what the heck--I'm a fan on a fan site! :D

  108. 1. On "Children's Stories" vs.
    Just because it's "aimed at kids" doesn't mean that it's not sophisticated or adult- and that we shouldn't expect from it what we would expect from an adult film.
    Let's look
    at the Tolkien: "The Hobbit," while
    self-contained, is long (too long to be read in a night- thus resulting
    in de-facto "cliffhangers" for the young reader), frightening, bloody
    at times, and containing rather adult themes. Even though it's for children, it requires them to be patient and deal with some serious, heavy and scary things to get to the end of a story

    Then again, the separation
    of these into fantasy and faerie-stories for kids and serious stories
    for adults is something that Tolkien was extremely critical of; for him fantasy was a necessary component for relating more serious insights about the world AND heady matters and situations were required to build any sort of meaningful fantasy-land. (Cf. "

    Why bring up Tolkien? Because he is THE model for nearly every fantasy storyteller and saga builder since the 1950s, and

    So, really we can count in PotC and Empire Strikes Back (which DeBlois has explicitly said is an inspiration for the second HHTYD film)

    Also, historically, "children's stories" were some really heavy and bleak things. I mean, look at Grimm's tales: you have rape, death, adultery, loosing limbs, etc. But- and here's the thing- they're well-done and for a reason and are a teaching moment. Thus I don't really think that upsetting kids is too much of a problem, as long as it's done well.

    2. On Dreamworks, corporations and DeBlois
    Also, while Dreamworks
    itself does have a profit motive, they care about the story as well,
    and- more importantly- DeBlois is VERY invested in telling the stories he
    wants to tell. After all- he left Disney after The Mouse wouldn't let
    him be as serious and sincere as he felt he needed to be for his "kids"
    stories. (Even though they did let him pull some pretty awesome stops in Mulan and Lilo and Stitch.)
    We know that DB required that DW allow him to make it into a
    trilogy in order for him to set up what he felt he needed to explain, and I bet he's going to do what's necessary to tell his story.

    I wouldn't put it past them for Toothless to die if that's what's
    needed for Hiccup to complete his Hero's Journey.)

    Secondly- and I know others have mentioned it- the audience is growing up and while some younger kids got hooked on the story while they were really young, they're 4+ years older now.

    Lastly, while Dreamworks (and Fox) do have to play to a profit base, there is a long precedent of "children's" stories that have taken risks, killed popular characters, left on unresolved notes, and pulled other tricks that aren't typically thought of as being kid-friendly that were still financially successful. For example: killing Mufasa or Bambi's mom, the Pevensies leaving Narnia (books and movies,) the romantic door opened at the very end of Mulan (we'll just ignore the sequel for that one), and so on.

    (IMO, Pixar missed a huge opportunity when it brought Wall-E back: it was such a great character-driven movie and having him truly sacrifice himself would have been HUGE and soooooo soooooooo meaningful and brave, but I digress...)

    3. "Cliffhangers"
    Now I
    agree: we won't get a true cliff-hanger, but not because it's a children's film. Rather, I seriously doubt DeBlois is
    going to leave off right before all of the action starts- I trust him
    not to be that sloppy of a storyteller, and a good story has a
    resolution of some kind.

    However, I do expect some pretty significant plot points to
    be left unresolved- much as in ESB, LotR PotC and other fantasy trilogies/sagas.

    Perhaps this whole discussion is actually about semantics and what we mean when we say "cliffhanger"

  109. Question: Do you think all of this will be resolved in movie two? or will most of these carry on (as "hooks") in to movie 3?

  110. Question: Do you think all of this will be resolved in movie two? or will most of these carry on (as "hooks") in to movie 3? It is definitely too much for someone to squeeze into just 105 minutes, but I'm wondering if most of the confusion in the thread is over semantics (as mentioned above re: "cliffhangers" vs. incomplete resolution) and what people are expecting to get addressed.

  111. Right but unique worldbuilding isn't the same as a COMPLETELY original story. Actually, there's only a handful of truly unique and unlike anything ever stories- most everything we know is a variation on the Odyssey and other classic tales. ;-D
    Of course, that doesn't mean that a "new" story can't be brilliantly innovative, fresh, expertly laid out, and wonderful with unique characters and tone- even if it is building with the same tools good stories have used for millenia. That's what makes stories like HTTYD timeless after all!!

  112. First off, I would like to preface this reply with a quote from Dean DeBlois regarding the trilogy: "There are certain characters and situations that come into play in the
    second film that will become much more crucial to the story by the

    This quote is a big part of why I'm choosing to trust Dean 100% on this.

    If you rewatch the recent trailer, you can actually see what he's talking about as far as "certain characters and situations" (Valka, Drago, Huge war, etc). Even he knows that there's no way to fit a story that big into just one film, hence the trilogy set-up of HTTYD.

    And for that matter, It was actually Dean himself that came to DWA with the intention of doing a trilogy. So it's not like he's being forced into having to pad out a franchise just for the hell of it (a la Cars).

    He's also said that the movie will delve deeper into Hiccup and Toothless's bond with each other. After all, HTTYD is, at it's heart, a 'boy and his X' tale. A very well-excecuted one at that. And it's not like Toothless won't be given ANYTHING to do (IMO). Again, the trailer seems to hint at his relationship towards other dragons.

    And as far as endings go, there's no denying that HTTYD2 will have an inevitable cliffhanger. But My hope is that it feels like an appropriate 'stopping point' instead of just cutting off completely (See: Deathly Hallows, Desolation of Smaug, etc).

  113. Well for me personally I think somethings will be carried over regardless. For example the side characters will still get some time in the third movie as will Hiccup and Astrid's relationship. Also I think the chief sub plot will be done up in this movie, but ultimately carried over to be (possibly) more prominent in the third movie. As for the others well it's lets concrete. For instance Valka, Eret, and Drago could be carried over or their stories could end here.

    If I stick to my theory in my earlier comment then I think Eret and Drago will be carried over and Valka's story will start and end within this movie. However what I honestly think will happen though is that all of their plot centric stories will be concluded in this movie. Eret and Valka could popup in the third movie but overall their plot relatedness will be through more or less. So really I think it comes down to how plot relative are these three characters (admittedly Eret is probably the least relevant out of the three, but I don't want to count him out to much cause who knows what might happen) and what they do with them that determines how much could be carried over into the third movie aside from the obvious that can pretty much be confirmed for the third already.

  114. 1. Yes, children can, at the very least, withstand some quite serious
    subject matter without incident, but there are still practical
    considerations to be made, and cliffhangers are one of them. While it
    is true that children are used to cliffhangers on a small scale, there
    is a huge difference between waiting a day/week (depending on the
    medium) and waiting two years for a resolution. Even at age 24, two
    years is seeming like a long wait. For someone half my age or even
    younger, it would be much, much more agonising, and there's simply no
    way Dreamworks would approve of pissing off their main audience.

    Once again, we're talking about practicalities, not thematic content.

    2. Yes, there are some very good people at Dreamworks, but they still
    have to answer to the people who are actually in charge, and they will
    be concerned (for better or for worse) with practicalities over thematic
    content. One of these main practical concerns would be not having a
    two-year cliffhanger, because kids just aren't that patient. Heck, even
    amongst movie trilogies that aren't aimed at kids, the studios know
    better than to leave two-year cliffhangers (The Matrix Revolutions came
    out six months after Reloaded, Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
    came out a year or so after Dead Man's Chest, and The Hobbit: There and
    Back Again will come out a year after Desolation of Smaug). Two years
    would just be a terrible idea from a business perspective.

    3. Yes, that. I fully expect there to be unresolved issues, because
    DeBlois is certain that he will be making a sequel (barring what I shall
    call the "Valka villain probability" of HTTYD 2 being a flop), but that
    won't be a proper cliffhanger, because the characters won't be in
    immediate peril. Unresolved issues vs cliffhanger basically amounts to
    The Empire Strikes Back vs Desolation of Smaug, respectively. Both are
    actually perfectly legitimate storytelling devices in the long term, but
    the former is much more sensible from a financial perspective, and
    better storytelling in the short term. Again, when your sequel is two
    years away, you need to focus on the short term first.

  115. Hiccup also has a beard, How did I not see that? XD

  116. 1. Yes, there are kids who watch a lot of blockbusters, but certainly in my experience, they are very much the minority. As I recall, teenage males make up the majority of ticket sales, especially for blockbusters. Therefore, if you happen to do something that annoys the kids and/or parents, then it's unfortunate, but not that big a deal. Hence why Michael Bay is so successful.

    In addition, of those movies, Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest was the only one of them that even came close to ending on a cliffhanger, and even that had the good business sense to bring out the next film in a year or so.

    2. The Empire Strikes Back is not a children's film. The violence is too dark (decapitations, strangulations, and amputations on-screen, with the on-screen being the key part), the themes too dark (the hero facing the threat not only of failure, but of becoming the villain), and the general tone just too dark (not nearly as much wackiness or whimsy as the films either side of it) to say that kids were the primary audience. Yes, there are certainly kids who can watch it (I was one of them in my youth), but that's a world different from saying it was aimed at them. It's rather like saying that My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic isn't a little girls' show just because of bronies (and I'm saying that as a brony myself). Peripherary demographics exist, and likely have for much longer than we realise, but they are, by definition, not the main demographic.

    And if you want to bring up Rise of the Guardians as a film that didn't catch on because it was aimed too young, then I must bring up the unrelated Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole as a film that didn't catch on because its content was aimed at too old a crowd.

    3. I do agree that, in many ways, we're best off just waiting for June (note to self: sort out that holiday so that I don't have to wait until July). With that said, I do find it better to keep one's expectations low, and certainly to quell any unreasonably high expectations, so as to avoid disappointment.

    And hey, for what it's worth, I do admit that it's technically possible that HTTYD 2 could end on a cliffhanger, but it's just at the Valka Villain Probability.

  117. That's actually a rather interesting detail, now that I stop to think about it. As I recall from the Comic-con panel, DeBlois said that the first scene in the film is a dragon race (presumably the one from the trailer), but that Hiccup wasn't in it because he was off exploring with Toothless. This raises an interesting question: were the painted CG models of Hiccup and Toothless just done for promotional material, or is there going to be another dragon race in there? I suppose it could be the final scene without causing any major trouble.

    This has been another random thought.

  118. I expect them to resolve all of the immediate issues. Drago's army will be defeated (possibly he'll escape, but his army will be shattered beneath the iron foot of Valka), and all of the subplots will arrive at some sort of resolution. There will likely be hooks, but these will be more minor or far-off things, rather than immediate issues requiring resolution in the immediate future in-universe. And that is not a cliffhanger.

  119. "It's an animated fantasy film that never relies on supernatural elements to move the plot."

    Maybe that was the case in the first film, but that went out the door the instant Valka knocked out Toothless with the Force.

    With all that said, every film and its world are unique if you get specific enough, but that kind of removes the point of claiming something as original in the first place. In the end, the world of HTTYD is basically Pokemon in viking times, and it's not like the viking aspect does much more than some surface touches.

    And again, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being unoriginal, provided you tell the story well, which the first HTTYD certainly did.

  120. Alright, just stop. Just be happy you got a tv show. =/ Would you rather just not have it? Gosh we all know that it takes a LOT of money to do a tv show, and they have no where NEAR the same funds as the movie producers do. Plus they are crunched for time to make it before the movie, so ya. What did ya expect?

    Sorry if this is harsh but geez.. Just be happy that you are getting a series. Quit nitpicking everything and start enjoying it.

  121. And sorry that just tagged you dragon wings. That wasn't at any one specific person.. just to everyone who seems to nitpick everything.

  122. Lose her appeal? maybe...

    Here is a pic from the Dragon Race book:
    She angry again. But sooo nice! I like Tuff's new hairstyle.

  123. Probably because she now has to deal with constant flirtation from Snotlout... XD

    I do think so, she and Tuffnut are not that dumb in the movie and the shorts, they argue and fight, still, but they do it, normally. Tuffnut also not really fond of death or pain as he does in the series...

  124. You have a point. The movie could also end with another dragon race scene... Or maybe he goes flying with Toothless after the race. I think I remember a mention about they were flying away after an argument with Stoick, you know, the whole chieftain thing... Hiccup refused and he flew away with Toothless.

    Let's see...

  125. We can be fairly sure that the painted look is not from the scene where they fly away after Hiccup has an argument with Stoic. That scene leads directly into Hiccup getting kidnapped by Valka, which leads directly to the scene in the cave from the trailer. I don't see any paint on Hiccup or Toothless in that scene. Okay, I suppose that Toothless' paint would have washed off, but that still leaves Hiccup.

  126. Now I inquire to see how the twins look like. NOW.

  127. If I remember well, I actually cried because I thought it was going to be bad that they were older, XD

  128. Hopefully he has grown up 'cause I didn't like his behavior in HTTYD.

  129. He wasn't as bad as Snotlout and the twins.

  130. same here cant wait!!!!!

  131. I love Hiccup as a dork. But he did get really cute!!

  132. Anyone would like to give a guess who will be next to receive its poster?

  133. I guess Snotlout, because why not?

  134. another new picture from:

  135. Just on the chief point: Agreed with David, except I'm curious if the Stoic/Valka relationship might provide a convenient escape hatch for the writers.

    Hiccup's finally more or less okay with the idea of being chief, Stoic wants to catch up on, oh, 15 years of time with his wife: Stoic steps aside (or at least Hiccup is more front and center) as chief.

  136. I mean, I lived in a house full of really little kids (2-6 yrs old) up until a few months ago, and yeah- I can vouch for them watching more "adult" films all of the time over a span of genres too (one was OBSESSED with Miracle and another with the LotR series). Memorizing lines and speeches and knowing almost everything about the plot.
    Then again, maybe they were all weirdos.

  137. i guess someone of group.Because the dreamworks animation website has six place for the posters.(Anyway i think Snoutlout) xD

  138. of the group (sorry);)

  139. I Still Love Them...<3

  140. love the gronckle-ears helmet.

  141. Again my apologies for taking so long.(I know you said it didn't bother you but it does me that I couldn't get to this sooner)

    #1: So I should clarify one thing that I can't believe I missed, and I apologize for missing it as well. Yes I do think this plot will end, but I think it will end within the context of this movie. In the sense of the trilogy I think it will be picked back up in someway for the third movie.

    #2: The trickery one was really something I have no good idea for myself. Was more so just me putting down what came as I went through. If I'm going to throw out another one maybe she bathes in dragon nip.She gets close enough and out cold. Horrible attempt aside going back and looking at the trailer. I'm starting to think it may have something to do with the staff just a feeling more so than anything else maybe sound dealing with the staff, but now really I'm just theory crafting which isn't what I'm here to do currently. Her feralness (I know not really a proper adjective but I'm using it) could be attributed to her movement and how she gets closer to toothless, but this is something we would need to see more of since it's so flimsy a point. On top of that though one could still be considered feral and be articulate, and if you were using graceful to refer to her movements. From what I saw her movements resembled that more so of an animal trying to get close to another animal it was on guard against in case of a strike or lash out.

    #4 In all honesty for now I don't. I would be willing to admit for a lot of these points I have been grasping at some pretty thin straws.

    Well I honestly can't add anything else to the other points really without potentially circling in on my own opinions or bringing up more based on conjecture and what have you. So this has been really interesting and a lot of fun to talk about. I can definitely see your worries and where you're coming from and why you have them. Do I still disagree with some of them yea sure but there not unfounded.So I guess you'll just have to forgive me when I say that I'm still going to hope for the best and go in expecting a decent movie that can stand on it's own.

  142. Sorry I know I said I was done but one little thing. Thank you for the advice believe me however when I say that I know that road and have been down it quite a few times with different people and things in the past. For which I have learned to live my life by planing for the worst, hoping for the best, and expecting somewhere in the middle. So when I say that I have high hopes that's what they are hopes.With that though you'll have to forgive me when I say that for this one thing I'm going to put on my rose tinted spectacles and say "no this is going to be good" even in the face of potential facts. Again I do apologize for not being able to add anymore to the discussion and having to end it off the way that I have. I haven't given up though if more information arises or I come up with a new and potentially good idea.(although that might be subjective and I might be biased in that subjectivity) I will bring it up when I see the chance to do so and see what you think, and we may start up our dance again. Until then "dances off exiting stage right to very confidant Mexican mariachi music." ohh I'm not funny but I can't help but try :)


  144. i don't really get upset of a dumb movie and i think why because in my hend i'm thinking this is just a movie so why would you get scary of a movie that's not even whats really going to happening. sometimes i don't watch kids movie. if i can watch a PG 13 or some R movies and sleep with out getiing scary in my sleep then is fine some kids need to think is just a movie and don't get scary because they think is going to happen.

  145. To put things simply, most kids haven't fully matured emotionally, and their rate of maturation varies. Some kids of a particular age may well be able to handle R-rated stuff, but most wouldn't, and a financially minded studio aims for that average area, because that's where the most profit is.

  146. I liked the old Fishlegs better